Natalie Freed 2024-09-18 20:08:32 Hello! I just listened to the AgentSheets episode and wanted to share that Iām working on a PBE + block programming educational tool. Itās a work in progress but the vision is of something like āa macro recorder for Kid Pixā that lets you switch between drawing and code editing. motifdesigner.netlify.app Target audience is elementary school age kids, though itās also meant to be fun for adults to tinker with.
Iām excited that there seems to be a bit more traction (or at least interest?) around PBE again. I thought it was an interesting point in the paper/episode that it hasnāt necessarily gone out of fashion because it wasnāt a good idea, but because other solutions emerged to some of the problems it was trying to solve.
Joshua Horowitz 2024-09-18 21:24:57 I love this idea, and the vibe of the prototype!
Something thatās not clear to me from my quick look: Are the programs you make with this fully āstaticā, so far? That is, is this currently like the Illustrator history view: a reification of concrete actions which can be manipulated, but without ācomputationā in the form of parameterization, repetition, etc? What are your plans for these?
Also curious how youād relate your plans to Bret Victorās āDrawing Dynamic Visualizationsā (vimeo.com/66085662). It certainly seems like youāre aiming for a different audience, but Iām curious how thatās reflected in the systemās design.
Jasmine Otto 2024-09-18 21:32:10 There are definitely some programmatic brushes! I was able to get a repeat-along-path construct from 'random repeat', and just figured out how to clone the brush onto a new path using 'draw'.
Jasmine Otto 2024-09-18 21:36:30 My impression is that both Motif Designer and NodeBox are to Illustrator as Victor's proposed system is to Vega?
Jasmine Otto 2024-09-18 21:36:58 In any case, despite using self-disclosing design tools since forever, DiGiano and Eisenberg 1995 is new to me. Thanks very much!
Joshua Horowitz 2024-09-18 21:46:30 Woah! That kind of repetition and randomized parameterization are definitely the kinds of things I was talking about. Iāll have to go back and take another look later.
Natalie Freed 2024-09-18 22:51:52 (going to answer this a little at a time! thank you for the awesome questions and for trying it!) The "repeat along path" aka "draw with" loops also let you compose and then draw with your own brushes.
Natalie Freed 2024-09-18 23:01:18 There are proto-variables in the color palette to parametrize the color scheme for a design (but currently, no way to manipulate those variables in code, eg. you can't programmatically create a rainbow)
Natalie Freed 2024-09-18 23:05:25 There are named groups (currently wrestling with what they should do to relative positions of the shapes, since I'm using absolute coordinates Processing style rather than turtle graphics)
Natalie Freed 2024-09-18 23:52:19 Re. goals of the system: I would say Kid Pix is a closer (aspirational!) comparison than Illustrator, with a side of being a research tool about children's reasoning rather than the most complete/composable system possible (though eventually I would also like it to be something teachers and kids can use!) So it's meant to be a playful tool that celebrates the process of making. It's also bitmap-based, so it's not fully two-way the way that some of the vector-based tools like this are. Ie. you can't click on a shape on the canvas directly and move it around because that wouldn't make sense if the shape had already been sliced up with other tools. In exchange you get some fun bitmap operations, and my hunch is that you get to see something about how kids reason between the two ways of operating on their designs.
Natalie Freed 2024-09-19 00:05:50 Iām especially interested in looking at workflows / practices that move between direct manipulation and coding, shifted out of the context of learning programming for its own sake. For example, the ādrawā button copies any line of code to the active brush, which means you can shift from editing parameters in the code to drawing it anew, and sometimes you might choose one mode over the other. You can also create wonky hand-drawn repeat patterns and then use them with programmed brushes. And itās all in the context of printing and fabricating something physical (will get back to that!)
saba 2024-09-20 16:50:58 Hi everyone! š I'm doing some user research on building reliable products at scale. If you work in development, testing, or product and have experiences with QA (or š where there shouldn't be), I'd love to hear your story!
Even a short 15-min call would be super helpful. Let me know if you're open to a convo and we'll set up a time. Thanks so much in advance š
Jarno Montonen 2024-09-22 08:04:57 Do you have any more specific questions or topics you'd like to hear experiences about? Feels like the whole career of most people here would fall under "š where there shouldn't be" and it'd difficult to put a whole career into a 15 minute story š
saba 2024-09-23 09:26:20 Great point! Here are some I'd like to hear more about:
- What testing strategies have you used and if stopped using any, why?
- What types of testing, practices, tools, and metrics have you used to measure the readiness of a product for release?
What were the most significant challenges you faced during the testing process, coverage, maintenance, or automation? How were these addressed?
- Who was responsible for what portion of testing in your teams?
