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Andreas S. 2023-06-26 12:41:08

Hello Future of Coding community 🙂

I hope you are all doing well. I am looking for a video/post by Chris Martens the slack search doesn't bring it up and in our own history tool : I can only search a channel. My memory of what I'm search is vague so I would have to go back at least 2 years in every channel ... is there another way to search ? Thank you for you help. Maybe Ivan Reese has an idea?

Ivan Reese 2023-06-26 15:17:00

We have a few different tools listed on the Community page. Maybe try

Andreas S. 2023-06-26 15:26:53

Getting closer, I think I'm looking for the video of this seminar:

Andreas S. 2023-06-26 15:38:19

there was a recording on her website but thats now currently gone

Andreas S. 2023-06-26 15:39:54

any idea how to decjipher that?

Andreas S. 2023-06-26 18:26:36

Thank you for trying.

Andreas S. 2023-06-27 08:39:59 apparently there is a video on the site which is working when im using brave...

But which wasn’t showing when I was using the link from web archive and chromium

Andreas S. 2023-06-27 15:02:11

I asked her over mastodon and she gave me the correct link….

Kartik Agaram 2023-06-27 17:10:36


Ivan Reese 2023-06-26 15:46:09

Train Jam to Strange Loop

A handful of folks from this community and adjacent spaces are riding a train from Seattle to St. Louis, arriving the night before Strange Loop. Come along to spend some time away from the daily routine, see the continental US, and hack / hang with other hack-hangers.



Ivan Reese 2023-06-26 15:49:22

I'm undecided — it'd be fun, but I also had plans to be in St. Louis for these two days, which would be annoying to cancel. So depending how my day goes today and what whims I choose to follow, I may or may not be on the train.

Kartik Agaram and Jack Rusher have booked tickets, so presumably you'll see them if you choose to go.

Eli Mellen 2023-06-26 15:50:05

if I wasn’t coming from the east coast, I’d totally do this!

Kartik Agaram 2023-06-26 16:48:11

I'm not actually attending Strange Loop. Limited patience for large gatherings + can't afford the time. So I'm flying to Seattle, taking the train, flying back from St. Louis.

Joshua Horowitz 2023-06-26 19:26:13

Very neat. I won’t be Looping Strangely or training, but I would love to meet up with folk in Seattle if that fits schedules & inclinations.

Jack Rusher 2023-06-26 19:40:27

I’ll be in Seattle a day or two early, so that’d work for me 🙂

Jimmy Miller 2023-06-26 21:52:47

So sad I can’t attend. Sounds like an amazing time

Ivan Reese 2023-06-27 00:13:41

And — sold out!

Also, I decided to sit this one out. But if anyone is in St. Louis a day or two before the conf, I'll be looking to meet folks, hang out, and probably eat as much pizza as I can. Plan accordingly!

Jack Rusher 2023-06-27 06:16:45

Ivan Reese I had hoped to sing high and lonesome harmonies with you as we chugged across the prairie, but look forward to seeing you in STL either way 🙂

Eli Mellen 2023-06-27 11:34:03

if I line up a bunch of chairs in a line can ya’ll still regale us with train melodies?

Ivan Reese 2023-06-27 12:49:24

I'm one of those dilettante amateurs who never took lessons.

No musical training.

Jack Rusher 2023-06-27 13:42:14

I call 💩 — didn’t your vocal training start in the womb of a voice teacher?

Ivan Reese 2023-06-27 15:19:06

My mother was a real diesel engine locomotive of acting and singing talent, true.

Jack Rusher 2023-06-27 15:20:53

And your various audiovisual recordings suggest the apple did not fall far from the tree

Ivan Reese 2023-06-27 15:22:14

Not far from the ~train~ , Jack. I'm doing bad train puns.

I can't sing, but boy can I whistle.

Walker Griggs 2023-06-27 23:00:47

Everyone excited for Fortran 2023!? Only mostly joking, but I just noticed today that fortran is scheduled for a new standard release next month. I got a big smile at some of the proposed imporvements

  • Trig functions that work in degrees
  • Using integer arrays to specify subscripts and section subscripts
  • Enum types
Walker Griggs 2023-06-27 23:02:37

2.4 US 22. Conditional expressions and arguments Conditional expressions, expressions whose value is one of several alternatives, are added. A simple example is value = ( a>0.0 ? a : 0.0)

Fortran now supports ternary conditions?

Konrad Hinsen 2023-06-28 06:35:33

Nobody ever gets excited about Fortran, and that's why it exists. It's boring technology that you can rely on. People get excited about what they are doing with their Fortran programs, happy for not having to deal with tech churn.

A useful lens for understanding Fortran is Stewart Brand's pace layers . Excitement is about the fastest layer, which Brand labels "fashion/art". Fortran is in the infrastructure layer. It's as exciting as highways and sewage systems.

📝 Pace Layering: How Complex Systems Learn and Keep Learning

Pace layers provide many-leveled corrective, stabilizing feedback throughout the system. It is in the contradictions between these layers that civilization finds its surest health. I propose six significant levels of pace and size in a robust and adaptable civilization.

Kevin Greer 2023-06-28 15:31:38

It would have been a good investment in your time if you had learned FORTRAN in 1957 (provided you wanted/needed to code in FORTRAN for 66 years).

Kevin Greer 2023-06-28 15:32:46

I was talking to a COBOL programmer and I assumed that the language had probably evolved a lot over the years, but they assured me that it hadn't and had remained relatively stable and unchanging, at least over their career.

Walker Griggs 2023-06-28 16:16:34

An irc contact turned close friend did their entire phd in fortran99 because that's what their fluid dynamics library was written it. I read through some of the systems and (aside from the math I didn't grasp) it was seriously readable

Walker Griggs 2023-06-28 16:17:26

I love seeing it supported and invested in (at whatever speed). The world may well crumble without it

Konrad Hinsen 2023-06-29 05:58:08

Kevin Greer It's indeed interesting to compare COBOL, Fortran, and Lisp, the three oldest languages that are still widely used. COBOL has hardly changed, Fortran has evolved significantly, but with a strong emphasis on backward compatibility, and Lisp has always continued splitting into dialects that have taken lots of different directions.

I see this mostly as Conway's law in action, the languages reflecting their communities: for COBOL, banks and insurance companies, for who stability is top priority, scientific computing based on mature theories for Fortran, and builders of experimental software for Lisp.

Kevin Greer 2023-06-29 13:42:59

Makes sense and I think this points to what is both Lisp's greatest strength and weakness: its versatility and mutability at the cost of being able to develop a community around an actually common standard.

Kevin Greer 2023-06-29 13:43:46

Maybe the curse of powerful languages.

Walker Griggs 2023-06-29 16:33:03

I have little context on the modern iterations of these languages and am trying to attribute some reason as to why they split in popularity. The few thoughts that came to mind:

  • Lisp is a standard and the dialects can be more flexible / meet modern use cases.
  • COBOL found a home on mainframes which are rarely used outside of banking
  • Fortran found an early footing in academic systems and has only been a stable, reliable base for scientific computing. Also performance

Do any of those points hold water?

Kevin Greer 2023-06-29 18:14:15

COBOL has very little competition, in that it is a language actually designed for business applications. Java was designed for set-top boxes, javscript for light scripting of webpages, Python for education, C for OS system programming, Smalltalk also for education. Given that the majority of the world's code is for business applications, this is a remarkably underserved area. COBOL's rich record support makes working with structured data much easier than something like C's anemic structures. FORTRAN also benefited from rich standard libraries like

Konrad Hinsen 2023-06-29 18:53:16

@Walker Griggs All three have official standards, which have multiple highly conforming implementations. It's really the application domains and the associated user communities that make the difference.

Mattia Fregola 2023-06-29 12:42:36

It looks like Figma is secretly – not so secretly 😛 – starting to turn code into design, and plugged in a mini-structured editor along the way.

(Attaching a couple of screenshots from the og file)

Ivan Reese 2023-06-29 21:38:20

Scientific American — Special Issue, 1991

Communications, Computers and Networks — How to Work, Play and Thrive in Cyberspace

Featuring articles by Tesler, Cerf, Kay, and more. (Requires a free Internet Archive account)

Ivan Reese 2023-06-29 21:55:31

Tesler's article, which begins on page 86, talks about the (then purely hypothetical, today almost realized) future in which computers act as intelligent agents that can perform tasks on your behalf.

Here are some excellent example prompts. I've seen something like each of these actually achieved for the first time in the past few years — but not yet free from the supportive scaffolding of a carefully planned demo, and definitely not all within one system.

Ivan Reese 2023-06-29 21:57:24

(Yes, this is all very Knowledge Navigator, I know. What's nice about the article is that you get a bit of Tesler's reflection on how these things ought to be, and why.)

Ivan Reese 2023-06-29 22:33:16

This paragraph began very suddenly and violently ringing and twirling inward around itself, dissolving and recomposing, about 25-30 years after it was written.

Ivan Reese 2023-06-29 22:47:26

Weiser's article, which begins on page 94, is great. It discusses the design of a system of computing devices that scale from wall-sized to pocket-sized, and how they might be used in a collaborative way. It's a fun alternate history, imagining a sort of Dynamicland-like scenario implemented with early 90s technology.

Ivan Reese 2023-06-29 22:49:27

Negroponte's article (p. 106) imagines Macromedia Flash

Ivan Reese 2023-06-30 00:19:15

Kay's article was actually my least favourite of the bunch, though perhaps that because I'm more familiar with his other, longer writings from this period which allow him to go broader and deeper than this little article did.

In any event, Kay talks about the role of computers in education, and how the computer must be seen as one of many tools to aid exploration, not a mere deliverer of information or a substitute for teaching.

Duncan Cragg 2023-06-30 22:26:04

Got interested in the conceit of a fringe-conference called "Programming Languages and Operating Systems", then read the CfP which seems to be aiming to pre-stifle any thoughts you may have had that innovation outside the familiar borders would be acceptable:

Suggested paper topics include, but are not restricted to:

  • domain-specific and type-safe languages for the OS;
  • the design of language-specific unikernels;
  • language-based approaches to crosscutting system concerns, such as security and run-time performance;
  • PL support for system verification, testing, and debugging;
  • synthesis of OS code;
  • static/dynamic OS configuration and specialization;
  • PL support for OS integration of modern hardware (NVM, HBM, FPGAs, accelerators, RDMA, etc.);
  • the use of OS abstractions and techniques in language runtimes;
  • verification and static analysis of OS components;
  • critical evaluations of new programming language ideas in support of OS construction; and
  • experience reports on applying new language techniques in commercial OS settings.
Jimmy Miller 2023-06-30 23:57:57

If I run a conference experience reports are banned. They are just advertisements. I do not like them as talks at all.

Paul Tarvydas 2023-07-01 13:41:16

I found myself referring to this (2016) video. In case all y’all (the plural form of “y’all”) haven’t seen it…