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Ivan Reese 2023-06-05 04:26:48

Addendum to the above, this PDF on the Dynamicland site. Starts with a bang.

Nobody asked for the invention of the graphical user interface. It wasn’t on any national research agenda. There was no demand from users — they were a small cadre of professionals using computing for specialized technical tasks, and accepted command-driven textual interfaces as simply what it meant to use a computer. There was no demand from the public — most people never expected to touch a computer in their lives.

The concepts around directly manipulating information arranged spatially on a screen were invented unbidden by a small group of visionaries, particularly in the research groups of Doug Engelbart and Alan Kay in the 1960s and 1970s. They believed that computing could be more than just number crunching, that it could serve as a medium for all people to see and discuss ideas, if only those ideas could be represented in visible, manipulable forms.

I haven't read the rest of the PDF yet, but it looks to go into a fair bit more detail about their vision for the "21st Century Science Lab" than what was hinted at in the video.

Personal Dynamic Media 2023-06-05 05:00:59

It is remarkable to me that someone who seems to be such a fan and student of Alan Kay does not make use of dynamic media to share their new and original ideas.

With PDFs and videos, the person receiving the message must attempt to recreate a model of the idea in their own head, and cannot interrogate the message itself with any questions.

On the other hand, when you give the person to whom you are communicating an executable simulation of your idea, they can play with it, modify it, run it with different initial conditions, see how it responds in different situations, and thereby acquire a more complete, experiential, and intuitive understanding of the idea you are attempting to communicate.

The more complex and dynamic the idea is, the greater the benefit of using dynamic media.

I cannot fathom why Victor publishes PDFs and videos instead of code.

Jan Ruzicka 2023-06-05 07:35:52

@Personal Dynamic Media I’d say there are mainly two reasons.

First, it’s pretty hard to create an interactive simulation of your idea. Sometimes, text is just more effective. Often, a simulation can be underwhelming whereas the reader’s imagination might conceive something grander.

Second, Bret doesn’t consider himself finished and fears that if he releases just about any part of the actual technical solution, that will become “set in stone”. Let’s be honest, most programmers today aren’t used to modifying third-party artefacts. They rather take it as given, and work-around what they dislike about them. This is exactly what happened to e.g. Smalltalks (as Alan Kay points out, he was disappointed that ST stopped changing after they “released” it).

Jan Ruzicka 2023-06-05 07:57:04

(of course, it’s somewhat ironic that the PDF talks about openness of models, knowledge, programs, etc., but Dynamicland is far from open; maybe they fear that a reduced version of Dynamicland might be more economically/socially stable, in which case, I fear if Dynamicland becomes widespread at all, these romantic intentions of Bret’s will still be appreciated only by few)

Naveen Michaud-Agrawal 2023-06-05 21:52:29

I don't think they've ever turned anyone away from visiting DynamicLand

William Taysom 2023-06-06 07:13:43

Yeah, it more seems to be wanting to get away from some of the weirdness characteristic of online interaciton.

Jan Ruzicka 2023-06-06 07:23:21

Well, visiting Dynamicland can get quite expensive for some people (talking about >700 dollars just for the flight). I understand their reasons (both philosophical and pragmatic), but still it's a little disappointing.

Naveen Michaud-Agrawal 2023-06-06 12:41:21

That's fair, but I think the idea is you can't really understand DynamicLand just from the code/software alone, since it's trying to simulate computation everywhere. So without building a similar setup the goals and ideas would be misunderstood

Ivan Reese 2023-06-06 13:47:07

There's also a strong emphasis on the community, culture, shared learning, being together in the space, etc. Can't put that on GitHub.

William Taysom 2023-06-07 11:27:55

I agree about the limitations Jan Ruzicka. Dynamicland finally made sense to me by imagining the status quo (Git, etc.) as such a strong attractor that they felt it necessary to blast into an entirely different direction.

Ivan Reese 2023-06-05 19:18:34

Alright, so we have the above visionary approach to spatial computing where you can actually touch and feel the computable things, your body is fully present in the computable space — assuming the dream comes true and it ever takes off — versus the now all-too-inevitable Vision where you don't even get to touch glass, your body is so absent that they have to make a meta human out of you. Here's hoping the latter doesn't take the wind out of the sails of the former.

I'm curious to see what sorts of programming tools Apple has come up with for Vision. I'm assuming it'll be the same old Swift, SwiftUI, and Xcode (now in a spatial window), but maybe there'll be some hint of novelty in Reality Composer Pro or some other accessory tooling. But I'm far, far more interested in seeing what we all can come up with.

Christopher Galtenberg 2023-06-05 20:37:33

Hopefully Swift Playgrounds lets us play around here (and one day soon just add an app to our homescreen)

Joe Nash 2023-06-05 20:55:01

Also saw something about Unity XR being available for it?

Ivan Reese 2023-06-05 20:58:58

Curious if that's just support for hand tracking, head tracking, etc, or if there's anything more to it. I mean, it won't be "a new interface to Unity for authoring content spatially within Vision"

Jimmy Miller 2023-06-05 21:14:43

I was really surprised by the lack of incorporating physical objects into the system. Seems like augmenting reality should include augmenting actual reality, not just overlaying objects in your vision.

Given the cameras it has and the processing they are capable of doing, it can obviously do it. I'm wondering what will be exposed to developers. Are we going to be able to use the apple vision pro to imbue the world with computation? Or will we be stuck with floating rectangles?

Christopher Galtenberg 2023-06-05 21:22:37

I think I'm putting on this facething when my present context is feeling dilute / void of stimulus – ie, go ahead and wipe out this current scene – but I get the "imbue" question

I want my memory palace

Ivan Reese 2023-06-05 21:38:19

On the "what sort of dev tools?" front, there's a bit of smoke from an AI/ML fire

Naveen Michaud-Agrawal 2023-06-05 21:55:32

VisionPro just seems to be simulating old media in a slightly more convenient form

Ivan Reese 2023-06-05 23:27:54

I'm more optimistic — I think it's a new medium, being bootstrapped off the existing app ecosystem so as to avoid feeling empty on day 1. Remember how the iPhone (and Apple Watch) launched with effectively no apps?

Chris Knott 2023-06-06 05:58:55

VisionPro just seems to be simulating old media in a slightly more convenient form

If eye tracking is supported at OS level as a first class concept like cursor and touch then that would be interesting. The rest is impressive but meh.

Chris Knott 2023-06-06 06:00:38

I wrote that thinking about a minority report style desktop then immediately realised the dystopian ad tracking implications

Jack Rusher 2023-06-06 06:21:03

📷 image.png

Jack Rusher 2023-06-06 06:22:03

I think this would be a good time to revisit the videos in the “tangible” category here:

… which offer many ideas that would work well in a VisionPro context.

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 21:57:01

There's a decent amount of info on the Apple developer site, but yes it's mostly the same stuff

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:14:54

For a device that's supposed to be for productivity there is very little on device development support. You can live update apps running on device though which is cool

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:15:53

I guess it's for productivity like iPad Pro is, not like MacBook Pro?

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:19:02

Unity is available also. It effectively has two modes, a mixed reality pass through mode where apps "render" by giving a system level 3D engine scene descriptions using USD

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:19:31

And a more traditional "immersive" (VR) mode where apps render using metal

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:19:40

Apparently Unity supports both modes

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:21:14

Apple has their own 3D editor called Reality Composer Pro which is an updated version of Reality Composer that supports Apple Vision Pro

📝 AR Creation Tools - Augmented Reality - Apple Developer

Reality Composer is a powerful tool that makes it easy for you to create interactive augmented reality experiences. Reality Converter quickly converts your existing 3D models to USDZ.

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:21:27

So all the dev tools are very incremental

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:21:51

Theoretically you can port an existing iOS AR app with very little change

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:22:42

If you just watched the keynote, you wouldn't really know any of this. They specifically downplayed the VR aspects and never called it a VR headset

Scott Anderson 2023-06-06 22:22:57

Which seems to have mostly worked from a marketing standpoint

Prathyush 2023-06-08 21:34:07

Pretty nice website cataloguing futuristic UIs here:

Any idea who is behind it?

Kartik Agaram 2023-06-09 16:25:03

(Too bad it doesn't support RSS.)

Jack Rusher 2023-06-11 09:38:16

“The first version of what would evolve into the world-renowned block-based Scratch programming language.” Mid-90s code base created at MIT using Macintosh Common Lisp 2.0.

📝 tiles421.lisp - Macintosh Repository

The first version of what would evolve into the world-renowned block-based Scratch programming language. Like Scratch, it was developed at MIT...